Torchmate 4800, XY Axis, Positioning and Squaring Table

Discussion in 'CNC Cutting' started by RDINC, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    We set up the 4800. From the start it would not reliably run a cut program. At different points in different cut jobs the plasma would not strike an arc. It would attempt 4 times and then time out. Sometimes it would only take 1-2 attempts to strike an arc and it would start again. Many times it would stop the cut job. We could press run job and it would continue where it left off. Other times it would loose the position it was at and return to the beginning of the job and start all over.

    This morning we try to work out any bugs to confirm the torch is indeed the issue and today we are having the gantry bind up in different areas. As well as more error codes have appeared. We have done a factory reset and reloaded the configurations per tech support. After doing this we now have issues with VMD connecting with the drives. After powering down everything 4 times and unplugging them, we were able to make a connection and continue testing. After cutting 5-6 test cuts I opened a job from the shape library and chose a trapezoid to cut. When the torch started it would not penetrate the same material it had just cut test pieces with.

    I am at a loss here. Nothing seems to help and it looks as if we are moving backwards with this. We have spent 36hrs this week working on this system that was to be able to start cutting items in 30 mins. It has cut nothing resembling the test piece they sent.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated. Below are pics and videos of the issues.....





    ps. I will post pics once i get them hosted... slow internet at home.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  2. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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  3. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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  4. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    IMG_2949.JPG This morning we start the machine and the datum position is way off. X-5.... nothing has changed since last night. The condition of this system is getting worse.....
     
  5. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    More issues at start up? Anyone else ever had these issues? Would a torch head cause the accumove to lose its position? Do you turn everything off at the end of the day or do you keep everything running?
    IMG_2946.JPG
     
  6. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    Bottom example was from last night before it stop penetrating. Top example was from this morning as the gantry was jerking about.
    Screen Shot 2016-09-22 at 8.57.13 AM.png
     
  7. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    No penetration from cut example last night...

    Screen Shot 2016-09-22 at 8.57.23 AM.png
     
  8. El Jefe

    El Jefe Advanced User Staff Member

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    Can you provide the serial number for your unit please? Please contact me directly via phone. When you call 775-673-2200 please ask for Jeff Knoll. If I am not available please ask for Monica, she will track me down. I will need your serial number to address this problem. We will make sure you have a perfectly running machine ASAP.
     
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  9. El Jefe

    El Jefe Advanced User Staff Member

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    Lucky Number 13? I wanted to post an update regarding the issue with the 4800 in this thread. This morning we had an emergency staff meeting with our management team regarding the performance of machine 4800-16-013. This meeting took place within 2 hours of my previous post. Using the videos provided by the customer we have been able to determine a possibility of internal damage to the motion control unit. We are not able to determine if this occurred during shipping, but we believe it is possible.

    In addition our Quality Control team ran an internal audit of all QC inspections to verify all machines had been tested as per our procedures. Each Torchmate 4400-4800 CNC machine is tested for about 3.5 hours before it leaves the factory. A cut sample is provided with each machine to verify cut quality before packaging. A video of this test unique to each table is now included on the hard drive of the system as proof of the test cut.

    Lincoln Electric is committed to producing Torchmate 4400-4800 CNC tables to the highest possible standards. Our complete engineered system was designed exclusively by Lincoln Electric so pin pointing potential problems and corrective action is a priority. As a remedy to performance of machine 4800-16-013 we have agreed with the customer to provide a replacement system to be shipped from our manufacturing plant in Reno, Nevada. Upon return of machine 4800-16-013, our QC and Engineering teams will diagnose the problem and verify potential causes. We will audit all processes that could affect the performance of this machine within our manufacturing and shipping procedures.

    To ensure this is an isolated case our customer service team has begun contacting all 4400-4800 machine owners to verify performance satisfaction.

    If a Torchmate 4400-4800 machine fails to operate out of the box, please contact our tech support team at 775-673-2200 for assistance.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
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  10. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    I agree with everything above. Lincoln is standing by their product and getting this fixed for us properly. I just got off the phone with a representative confirming logistics. I hope to have the new table installed in a few days and be back at work. Lincoln's commitment to their products definitely shows.
     
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  11. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    "A video of this test unique to each table is now included on the hard drive of the system as proof of the test cut."

    Where would this be located? How do we access this file?
     
  12. Larry Cameron

    Larry Cameron Well-Known Member

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    Makes for interesting reading and I for one will be interested in the results of the returned units faults and rectification and hopefully we won't have any more issues once this riddle is solved. Good on Lincoln for sorting the problem quick smart!

    Shows it is a company dedicated to having a top performing machine.

    Cheers
    Larry Cameron
    RusticMetalArt
     
  13. El Jefe

    El Jefe Advanced User Staff Member

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    This procedure was added after your table was manufactured. It is located on the touchscreen as a shortcut. I believe it's titled test cut.
     
  14. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    El Jefe, Thanks for that update as i'll be sure to look for that video when the new machine arrives. Also when did this change take place as our machine was manufactured this year?

    And in the spirit of full disclosure I want to inform those who are reading/watching this thread of the status of our issues. I inquired of the date that the replacement table was shipped. I did so by the chat feature online and I was prompted to call. I did so and was changed through a couple of departments until I reached someone who could access the info I needed. I was informed that the table had not shipped and I would be called back after a morning meeting the next day. The lady I spoke with called me back and left a message on my voicemail( Our shop is a metal building so cell reception is horrible) stating the table had indeed not shipped and the department that handles this, hopes that they can get it shipped out on Friday. I am to call on Thursday 9/29/16 to verify a shipping date.

    So....
    9/19/2016 Table is removed from crate and we attempt use with many issues. Calls and messages to TM for assistance.
    9/20/2016 More of the same from the table
    9/21/2016 More of the same from the table
    9/22/2016 TM offers to replace table
    9/28/2016 Table has not shipped.
    = 76 hours of lost time on a project (as of 9/28/2016), with more waiting to come it seems.

    And to be clear I am not mad or angry. It was my impression this would be handled quickly and I would not have an extended down time. In my mind it should have shipped within 2-3 days not a full work week later. I am impatient and growing more so, although I do understand it takes time for the paperwork to be processed and the logistics to be worked out. I want this to table to work and make me money to keep my business growing. I have even asked, that if this new table performs the way TM says it will, that my company be listed in the Garage and Shops section to show off some of our projects.

    In the end I think, and hope , all works out as it should. I will keep this updated as to our progress with our TM4800.
     
  15. El Jefe

    El Jefe Advanced User Staff Member

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    RDINC, I have just walked through the entire process after our conversation on replacement to find out why its not already on the road. Your machine will be shipped this evening, or tomorrow morning. I was under the impression it was already on the road to Alabama. Calling you now with an update.Our customer service group should have shipping info in the morning.
     
  16. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    Update....

    El Jefe was able to get our table shipped out yesterday and the arrival is scheduled for 8-10am Monday, 10.3.16.
     
  17. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    We finally got our replacement torchmate 4800 last Monday. We ran into a few problems... Namely the torch pins. 2 were bent and one was broke off.....

    IMG_2993.jpg

    We were able to take parts from the old machine to get this "new" one working.....

    Its cut great out of the box and in no time we were able to make this for a customer..... IMG_3003.jpg

    We then began a new project. This was our sixth unit we cut....

    IMG_3028.jpg

    Then all the old problems we had with the first unit showed up again....

    IMG_3027.jpg
     
  18. RDINC

    RDINC Member

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    So contacted TM when this occurred and we went a few steps and everything checked out as it should have. So a 2nd table with more of the same gremlins.It has been a few days since I visited this issue because I needed to cool down. We are adding EMI filters today to see if that will correct any interference. The only reason I am doing this is because I am grasping at straws to get this table to work as it should and as it was represented.

    Also, El Jefe mentioned a "cut file" video was taken to show proof on new machines. My first machine didn't have it and I can not seem to find it on the second machine either. Does anyone have proof that this file exist on any machine?

    I sent an email yesterday to ask for more help from tech support but have yet to receive an answer today. If anyone has any pointers or any ideas on what could help our situation please let me know.

    rdinc@ymail.com
     
  19. LECS-Chad

    LECS-Chad Moderator Staff Member

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    I wouldn't be emailing support... I'd be calling.

    First thing to check is to do a series of motion tests. This will help determine if you are getting a mechanical bind or if it has to do with "settings". So you can generate a rosetta file and drop all the M64/65 out and it will just move the torch around or do a series of POINT moves. Dry run the file you are having issues with and see if the torch comes back to the set PROGRAM ZERO. Goal is to see if it goes through the motions and returns back to the start or the same place. By looking at your cut file is that you have A LOT of circles. Can you send me the cut file for that so I can test on our machines here along with look at the sequence? This will help us understand if it is settings or mechanical. Also when you get these results and you DATUM again are you WAY off in numbers?
    email me at... support@torchmate.com
     
  20. Larry Cameron

    Larry Cameron Well-Known Member

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    Heck, I would be a bit miffed as well................ one thing that from my experience I have noticed with my table in the initial stages of using (Torchmate 2 x 4) was:
    I would lose position when the torch contacted the work piece while cutting and managed to lose some steps which threw it off alignment.
    This doesn't happen any more as I have compensated for the height when cutting fine sharp angled cuts where the torch may dive a little looking for material to cut. This hasn't happened here has it?

    As it seems strange to cut perfectly well then lose position all of a sudden and it seems all your circles are still perfect circles or is there one that has screwed up and caused the alignment issue as I cant tell from the photos.

    Larry
    NZ
     

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